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Weapon Recommendation Thread
#31
(08-24-2012, 01:41 PM)dannydefense Wrote: Alrighty. I'm going to be myself, which means I'm going to go against the flow on this one.

If you can have only one gun, and only one, I don't recommend a shotgun. Hear me out; in any situation where you have to deal with an active shooter, the best course of action is to disengage and retreat. Period. Find a way out, and leave. You don't always have that option though, and if we're talking a shtf situation, people will act like dogs and rove in groups, I am almost positive of that. Having six rounds available to you before you have to reload is going to get you killed; this is a rule with sidearms, and this is a rule with long guns.

If you can have only one gun, I implore you to purchase a black gun. An AR-15 or one of it's close cousins, even an AK if that's your cup of tea, but something that can hold 30 rounds minimum and can be reloaded much faster than any shotgun (running two magazines in tandem you can easily train to reload in under five seconds). They are multi-functional, just like a shotgun, in that they make excellent cqb weapons, and can easily be used for hunting. You also don't have to spend 4 digits to get a functional weapon, the new Mossberg MMR can be had for as low as $700. A Stag Arms executive survival kit is pretty darned neat too.

If you go with a handgun, the same logic applies. More ammo is better. This is why a lot of people prefer 9mm, including the Navy Seals. I like .40 because it gives me a larger round while still allowing me to carry higher capacity magazines than a .45 would. I don't like Glocks, but I think that's more a personal preference than anything to do with the safety... I think they're just ugly guns. Sig Sauer, Springfield, and Taurus make some excellent pistols.

I don't fully agree with Whiteangel on this one, sidearms don't need full safeties. If your attacker is under the 21 feet and coming at you with a knife, and you have exactly 2 seconds to react, do you want to mess with a safety? Keep your finger off the trigger and your gun won't discharge into your buttocks. If you have kids in the house, a safety is not going to keep them safe. A gun safe will, and being aware at all times of where your weapon is (if it's not in the safe, it better be in your holster). This is not a situation where you have the luxury of making a "simple mistake". If you accept the responsibility of owning a gun, you need to accept the responsibility that it is more important than answering the phone, watching tv, or "just leaving it there for a second".

Sorry for prattling on. I should edit this and probably shorten it, but... I'm too lazy. Big Grin


You make some good points, but I respectfully disagree with a couple of things. I am assuming that you are ex-military or current military. For someone trained, a rifle is an awesome weapon, but for most civilians who are scared out of their minds, if they have someone running toward them that will be there in 2 seconds with a knife ... if they have to aim, they are dead. They will freeze; they most likely will miss the first shot, not get a chance to reset themselves before taking a second shot, and it will be all over. If you take out the choke, a shotgun blast doesn't have to be nearly as accurate at a rifle shot to inflict damage. In a SHTF situation, one that is sawed off to about 12inches is even better, because it sprays, though I would never recommend you do that, because it is illegal.

Secondly, according to Inahme, who was Special Forces for 34 years, if they are coming that fast, you probably won't have time for a gun. If they are running at you with that speed and 2 seconds to go, a 9mm probably won't stop them. Additionally, the Navy Seals don't use 9mm. They carry .45's; quite a few of them use the Glock Model 21.

The difference between a .40cal and a .45cal is 5/100ths of an inch, so I would disagree that they are higher capacity mags. I don't know about every gun, but the Taurus .40cal and .45cal hold the same amount.

One of the posts that Inahme made was talking about AK's, AR-15's and M-4's. The point he was making was that although they are all good weapons, you always want to be carrying the weapon of your enemy. You can resupply, so you aren't carrying extra weight, and should you find yourself in a firefight, confusion is your friend. You want to be firing the same weapon as your enemy, so the sound of your weapon doesn't give away your position. The police and military carry the M-4's.
See: http://www.getreadyforum.com/boards/Thre...val-weapon Post #1

The other point he was making was that moving parts mean problems, and the more moving parts you have to deal with, the more likely it is that your weapon will fail, especially in survival situations where you may not be able to do the kind of maintenance it needs to stay functional.
See: http://www.getreadyforum.com/boards/Thre...use-prefer Post #10

I whole heartedly agree with you on keeping fire arms safe. It wasn't Whiteangel that was talking about the .22cal, that was me, and I suggested it mostly because she wanted something for a kid to learn on. 22 Ammo is cheap and you can hunt small game with it. It is also relatively quite, and I agree that more ammo is better. A block of 22's has about 500 shots ... and the weight isn't bad to carry.
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#32
(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: You make some good points, but I respectfully disagree with a couple of things. I am assuming that you are ex-military or current military. For someone trained, a rifle is an awesome weapon, but for most civilians who are scared out of their minds, if they have someone running toward them that will be there in 2 seconds with a knife ... if they have to aim, they are dead. They will freeze; they most likely will miss the first shot, not get a chance to reset themselves before taking a second shot, and it will be all over. If you take out the choke, a shotgun blast doesn't have to be nearly as accurate at a rifle shot to inflict damage. In a SHTF situation, one that is sawed off to about 12inches is even better, because it sprays, though I would never recommend you do that, because it is illegal.

I'm glad I have the opportunity to continue this discussion because I had a feeling afterwards like I just came in here and told people what to do. Let me postscript by saying that those opinions are just that; my own opinions, and what works for me won't always work for others. They're also not close minded opinions, they've been formed over a period by learning when I am wrong, and will constantly evolve to that effect.

That being said, this is exactly why people should always be in training mode. Going out and shooting is great fun, and having a gun in your house is a great first line of defense. But if you're not ready to deal with being attacked, rifle, shotgun or hand grenade, you're going to have a hard time. No matter what weapon you choose, practice with it while visualizing the scenarios you may need it in.

Training exercises at the range and in the home are crucial. When in the home, BE so SAFE that people would think you're neurotic. Buy snap caps, lock up your live ammo, and triple check your weapon. If you can afford some blue training weapons, awesome. Practice clearing your house. Practice getting to your safe room. Don't make yourself paranoid, just run through possibilities and figure out what you would do. You don't have the luxury of getting in to a gun fight to practice, so go back to that childhood we all left behind and imagine.


(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: Secondly, according to Inahme, who was Special Forces for 34 years, if they are coming that fast, you probably won't have time for a gun. If they are running at you with that speed and 2 seconds to go, a 9mm probably won't stop them. Additionally, the Navy Seals don't use 9mm. They carry .45's; quite a few of them use the Glock Model 21.

Afaik they're using the Sig MK25, which is chambered in 9mm. Officially they awarded the contract to Glock, but that was done against the recommendation of the actual teams who ran all the tests, and they found a way around it. That could be hearsay, I'm not a Seal and don't know any personally. Smile


(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: The difference between a .40cal and a .45cal is 5/100ths of an inch, so I would disagree that they are higher capacity mags. I don't know about every gun, but the Taurus .40cal and .45cal hold the same amount.

Definitely depends on the weapon, but more often than not .40's are double stack and .45 are still single stack, giving you usually 20-40% more capacity on the .40's. 2 rounds can make a difference if you don't have time to do a tactical reload.

(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: One of the posts that Inahme made was talking about AK's, AR-15's and M-4's. The point he was making was that although they are all good weapons, you always want to be carrying the weapon of your enemy. You can resupply, so you aren't carrying extra weight, and should you find yourself in a firefight, confusion is your friend. You want to be firing the same weapon as your enemy, so the sound of your weapon doesn't give away your position. The police and military carry the M-4's.
See: http://www.getreadyforum.com/boards/Thre...val-weapon Post #1

We don't currently have an enemy (let's just ... go with that) so my thoughts on that would still steer me towards an AR platform. Almost any upper will mate to another manufacturers lower, I'd guess that at this point 95% of them have picatinny style rails meaning that everybodys tricked out ARs will have tons of free merchandise for yours, interchangeable stocks, interchangeable forearms, gas tubs, bolt carrier groups... If we ever wind up in a shtf scenario where a large portion of civilization is decreased in a short amount of time, there will be black guns literally blanketing this country.

(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: The other point he was making was that moving parts mean problems, and the more moving parts you have to deal with, the more likely it is that your weapon will fail, especially in survival situations where you may not be able to do the kind of maintenance it needs to stay functional.
See: http://www.getreadyforum.com/boards/Thre...use-prefer Post #10

AR, AK's, and my XD are pretty reliable. I know the military runs quite a few thousand rounds through some of theirs without cleaning, without failure - this doesn't mean they can't, they can fail after one round, but again this comes back to training (and if you're lucky enough to carry a few thousand rounds in shtf, I commend you for that alone). There are natural oils out there, natural solvents...

...but on the other hand, a blade never needs to be reloaded and can be sharpened quite easily. I also carry a fairly large knife. Big Grin

(08-24-2012, 09:42 PM)Graywolf Wrote: I whole heartedly agree with you on keeping fire arms safe. It wasn't Whiteangel that was talking about the .22cal, that was me, and I suggested it mostly because she wanted something for a kid to learn on. 22 Ammo is cheap and you can hunt small game with it. It is also relatively quite, and I agree that more ammo is better. A block of 22's has about 500 shots ... and the weight isn't bad to carry.

The .22? I was disagreeing with Whiteangel about the need for a safety. I like safeties on rifles because I can't put them in my pocket, but my holster and my index finger are the only safeties I need on my sidearm. Smile

.22's are great, and I'll use that as another example to beef up my passion for ARs, muahahah... You can buy .22 uppers for $4-600 for your 5.56/.223 AR, and easily swap them out while at the range... this means you just went from firing off a few dozen rounds that day to firing off a few hundred, for pennies. Absolutely awesome investments.
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#33
Is there are particular ammo that is better for an AR15? No, not that you do or don't like that gun ( I know a lot don't), just what kind of ammo would be best.

Won't know for a couple of days what other weapon types I will need to buy ammo for and then will be asking you again.

Also, cleaning kits - once main one is bought is there "refills" that would be best to get?

A newbie here, be gentle.
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#34
Whaaaaatttt? People don't like the AR? Sure AKs and SKS are reliable guns, but that's like saying I don't want the Ferrari, I'd rather drive a Corolla. A Russian Corolla. With no rear windshield (just because the engine works doesn't mean it's a pretty car). A Russian Corolla that had a Wankel engine put in it. A carbureted Wankel engine. It may work until kingdom come, but it makes no sense why.

I'll thumb wrestle anyone who wants to talk bad about ARs.

Anyways, now that I've gotten that little fit out of the way, it really depends on the purpose and your particular rifle. Winchester and Remington make some dirt cheap target ammo. Hornady makes some of the hands down best ammo for nearly every caliber they put out. If you have the resources, you really can't go wrong taking a couple boxes of each ammo to the range with you, and firing each from a sitting and supported position... compare each target (swap them out as you swap out ammo) and make a decision on which you and your rifle were the most accurate with.

Remember to pay attention to the grain as it will make a difference in your decision; lighter ammo tends to have a higher velocity but can be affected by wind more, while heavier ammo will penetrate deeper, among other small differences.

When it comes to cleaning, any kit will do, just get one that's specific to your caliber and not a "universal". If you want the best of the best, Otis is one of the best known and recommended... and don't go cheap on the bore guide.
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#35
I will have to go along with denny on the AR, I have a Smith&Wesson AR 15 m&P sport 5,56 nato it cost me under $700.00 I also bought a .22 cal conversion for about $180.00 to cheapen the target practice. its a good gun and very accurate I have also tricked it a little but still a good price, reliable and versitale. Ed
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#36
(08-18-2012, 08:41 PM)Mongoose Wrote: Yes to the long gun.
If you can afford only one, and make it a 12 gauge.



If you are looking for defense you have to consider where it will be used.
You will need to defend yourself in a public place at some point.
There was an excellent article (will look for it) from Fer Fal (I think) about the collapse in Argentina. He stated that the best self defense weapon is a handgun, it is concealable in public as a long gun isn't.

If he is insistent on a pistol do not go with a 9mm. U.S. Marines recently ordered $22.5M of colt .45's. Guess they wanted something guaranteed to stop something.

My opinion --- 1911, I have carried one for 42years, and it has stopped, in it's tracks everything it has hit.
I love the 1911! I want one. Kids have fired a couple different 1911s. They were 10 and 8 at the time. Handled it well and guess what, hit the target.

I know I am late on input on this but the 1911 .....wow...very very nice.
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#37
@bosco

This is turning into an excellent thread and exactly what this site is all about. Thank you Bosco
for all the research and work you have done for us.

Hope all members take advantage of whats here to help protect their families and be able
to hunt for food when the bottom falls out.
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#38
I agree! Excellent information here in this thread!...I can't really mention all that we have in preps though can say that my ccw of daily use is a Taurus snub nose .45 and a colt 380 pocketlite.

I can say this for sure, if the big bummer gets a second vacation in the oval orifice...grab em quick...they will go like hot cakes faster than the first vacation!
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#39
Great thread!!!

I just wanted to second the opinion on a 22 semi auto rifle for training kids.

1- They are cheap. I see the older used rifles all the time for around a hundred bucks.

2- Ammo is cheap. A box of 555 shells is less than twenty bucks. This means your kid can fire away until they are comfortable with out costing an arm and a leg.

3-Comfort. No kick, little noise, lightweight, short barrel. They can move up from a bb gun to this in just a minute and learn to aim from every position. Make them learn to use the sights. I have a scope, but never put it on.

Myself, I like a little more power.
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#40
Spot on about the .22. Greatest survival tool I have.

I think that alot of people try to lump everything into one application. But Gun Safes are like a tool box in my opinion.

These are the categories as I see it.

1. A shotgun. Good all around tool. Can pretty much do everything, albeit short ranged and ammo to weight ratio will drag you down if you are on foot. This is where people forget to diversify. Yes, I agree that if you are using it as part of your bug out it is not the best. But if bugging in or with vehicle it's definitely a great tool. I have ground shot birds with a rifle, but this practice is highly unsafe, and unless a supreme marksman next to impossible on an incoming duck. In fact I have been downrange of some rednecks shooting at a flock of geese with .22's, not a good day.

2. A survival gun, not thinking the great zombie apocalypse either. A 10/22 fits this great. Great to learn with and the rounds are cheap and light weight. Can take small game to 100 yards easily.

3. A MBR (Main Batlle Rifle) this is the category that gives people like us a bad rep. I am not even going to get into AR vs. AK, .223 vs. .308, let's leave that to the people who fantasize about a run and gun mad max environment where they are going to have the most kills and somehow nobody else has the skills to take them down. I will say that I used to stick with the 7.62 for it's stopping power but finally went .223 about a year ago to lower ammo weight, if I ever did have to hump on foot. Can also be used for larger game. I've seen plenty of deer brought down by the .223

4. accurate big game hunting rifle. This can fill the gap on the extreme side of your weapons. The run and gun types would call this their sniper rifle. I have my trusty 30/06 for this, many a deer, moose and one bear have met their demise at the end of this weapon. If you are just starting out, focus on consistently hitting the black at 200 yards with this weapon. I also have other weapons in this category depending on what I am trying to get accomplished.

5. A sidearm, once again a big debate. I'll stick with my .45 ACP 1911 GI issue.

So it boils down to what you want or need in each category. as mentioned this has always been a big debate at all sites I've been on in the past. But IMO get all five categories filled and then decide the ultimate question 'If there could only be one?'. That question is best answered by what you envision, what you are after and how much money do you have?
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